Saturday, March 15, 2014

Addendum: Is N-07 directly south of N-01?

After posting the previous post concerning the observations of SSgt James Bone, the November Flight Security Controller (FSC), Tom Tulien provided comment on my #7 conclusion element.  I wrote, "7.  Though he wrote in his AF-117 that the distance of the light was 10-12 miles away from his location, I have a certain degree of difficulty as to how he could have made this based on a night time observation...why not 15, 20 or 25 miles away?  The 10-12 mile distance would have put the UFO near or directly over N-07, but Bond could not observe anything SW of his location and N-07 was SW of N-01."

Tom commented, "FYI: N-7 is directly SOUTH of N-1 by about 10 miles:"

And for the longest time, I had assumed that this was so, based on the Off-Base Disaster Control Grid Map that Tom had provided for his site,  If you look at the map, it certainly gives the impression that N-07 is directly due south of N-01 and N-07 is right next, somewhat north of Grano, ND.

I, by accident, discovered that this was not quite so.  While using Google Earth, I had noticed that N-07 was some distance outside of Grano and not simply parked next the the small farming community.  I also noticed that following due north from N-07, I was not finding N-01.  I did eventually find the LCF after following HWY 5 going east.  Without really thinking about it, I assumed that N-07 was somewhat SW of N-01 and I had forgotten that the map on Tom's site had both sites on a simple north-south axis.  Honestly, I was confused by Tom's comment.

Going back to Google Earth, I obtained the longitude and latitudes of both sites:

N-01:  lat 48 45' 34.81" N   Long 101 35' 31.21" W

N-07:  lat 48 37' 20.47" N   Long 101 36' 7.31" W

When you look at both coordinates, it appears to be no big deal...pretty close match up, but when you do a distance calculation, you find that there is a difference of 770 yards...almost a half of a mile!  Then one comes to the conclusion that N-07 is actually SSW of N-01 by about a half mile.

The map shown on Tulien's site is not accurate.  The actual location of N-01 should have been moved a half mile to the east on hwy 5. This is not Tom's fault as he provided only what was supposed to be an official map for Minot AFB disaster control and preparedness coordination.

In around about way, this is why I felt that Bond would have had a difficult, if not impossible, means of observing directly over the N-07 area based on his physical location manning the FSC's post at the LCF.  This would also have made it impossible for him to look towards the SW direction of Mike flight as he stated he did in his interview with Tulien.

Despite the above, I believe that Bond did leave his post at some time to either go outside and gaze either along the southern perimeter fence or along the western perimeter fence.  This would have given him the visual vantage points for his observations as stated in his AF-117 and interview with Tulien.

Or, Bond merely had to walk down a hall way in the LCF and looked out a door way located at end of building, thus having a clear view showing S, SE and SW.  But, this is speculation on my part as Bond has never given any indication that he actually did the above.

Clear cut UFO case?  I've only scratched the surface and already confusion and uncertainty abounds.  Hopefully, Adams and Jablonski will help clear some of this up in my next post.


  1. Well, if we do an azimuth for these locations N-7 is at an azimuth of 182.7 degrees from N-1. It is NOT due south but it is not SW (225 degrees). It is not even SSW (202.5 degrees). However, I think I see your point on all of this and that a view towards N-7 out the front window was not possible.

  2. Hi Tims:

    Bond was fairly clear that he never left his post during this time. I have obviously assumed that the FSC was located in the southern end of the building and failed to clarify the fact.

    Bond pp. 16-17:

    JB: Yeah.
    TT: So you were watching it from inside the building. [Was] your SAT team with you at the time?
    JB: No, they were out.
    TT: Jablonski and Adams, they were out?
    JB: They were out and I couldn't leave where I was to go in the back and wake up [break in recording] and let them come up and—
    TT: So what did you do next?
    JB: They went to where the maintenance team was.
    TT: Right, did you just call them on the radio?
    JB: Yeah, I talked to them on it, I had my little mike right there on my desk and talked to them. We didn't have fancy things like they get now with the headphones and the earpiece and mouthpiece.
    TT: Do you recall where they were at the time?
    JB: No.
    TT: How long did you watch it?
    JB: It couldn't have been too long, maybe 15 minutes, maybe 10 minutes.
    TT: And this object was in sight basically that whole time?
    JB: Yeah, pretty much. It moved, at one time I lost focus of it, it came back, it was [break in recording] and—
    [Changes tape]
    TT: OK, so you were observing it from inside your building?
    JB: Right.
    TT: You had big picture windows there?
    JB: Not big picture windows, I couldn't go outside, because if I did I'd be off my post. You know, unless there was a fire that drove me outside the building. So all of my sightings were from inside, and I made sure what I was seeing was what I was seeing, that's when I turned the lights out—because a big neon light shined on the window.
    TT: Right, you sent Jabonski and Adams down, were you in radio contact with them on their way?
    JB: Yeah.
    TT: Were they seeing anything at that time, do you recall?
    JB: I don't believe they reported seeing anything right then, but then, when they got closer to the site, that's when they—
    TT: So they let you know?
    JB: Yeah, well they were pretty much telling me that they were seeing the same thing, and it was moving, they said that a series of strange looking things and "I don't hear anything" and from where I was I didn't hear any, 'course I was quite a bit of ways from it.
    TT: So you were seeing it kind of low on the horizon?
    JB: Yeah.
    TT: Did it ever go up high into the sky?
    JB: Not that I—it basically stayed low from where I was at, like if I were looking through the window right here, it would be like halfway above where that tree is over there.
    TT: Right, you were 10 miles north of N-7?
    JB: Probably.

    Also, Jablonski p. 10:

    No, I don't recall that. Anyway for, within a half hour they were, you could hear them on the radio yelling and you know...
    TT: Oh they called?
    JJ: Yeah that this thing was hovering above them or whatever. And we all went outside. Naturally, me and the other guy had to respond. On our way to the pick up, you know, everyone else was outside and you could see it (gestures to sky).
    TT: So the off-duty guys were out there too?
    JJ: Yeah, yeah....
    TT: And the FSC?
    JJ: Well, he was in contact with the, he had to stay...
    TT: Ah, so you guys just went outside and you were trying to see it


  3. Tim P, thanks for the azimuth detail, I never thought of using it. I found myself talking in generalities when saying that N-07 was "770 yards to the SSW of N-01."

    Tom, thanks for your comment. The FSC office was located on the North right hand corner of the building providing security for the secured door to the elevator shaft to the LCC. The main entry to the building was about mid-building. There was a hallway that ran the length of the building, in the center that led to a doorway at the southern end. based on this physical layout, I and you can speculate that Bond had access to this southern vantage point, if he left his post.

    The other point to this post and my last comment to you is that the maps were inaccurate as far as the actual location of both N-07 and N-01. When I post about William Smith, you will see that he had a clear view of the south direction because the LCF at Oscar was in a north-south orientation, but the FSC's office was located in the southern end of the building.

    Tim H.

  4. Tim:

    Yeah, it has been some years since I looked at this. I have driven those roads and was aware of the offset but since it is less than half of the distance from S-SSW it seemed reasonable to go with S. Particularly since the AF data is unconcerned with precision.